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« FOLLOW THE MONEY | Main | Sneaky Bastards »

April 16, 2008

Comments

Sam

4/19/2008 (Waco Day)
The Polygamist Raid... executed on false pretenses? Updated.

Update: From the Jawa Report: One Rozita E. Swinton, pledged Obama delegate:

"In her little baby voice, she said, 'If you rescue me, and I get out of here, do you think the black people will hurt me?' " Walker said. "She had done her homework. She knew it was a racist cult. We know that these kids are very frightened of black people.

"The Texas Rangers told us she was obsessed with the FLDS. They confiscated tons of material on the FLDS (in the search of Swinton's home). She even gave real addresses and real names of FLDS people."
Wow. Obama might want to rethink just who is embittered.

Update II: Hmm, Rozita Swinton, the fraudulent tipster, otherwise known as "Sarah," might have gotten the idea from... Oprah.

And from the SLTrib:
FLDS women who were in state shelters with their children until Monday say investigators appeared desperate to find "Sarah" and were grilling girls by that name. ...
On Monday, hours after being separated from the children taken into state custody, FLDS women claimed authorities appeared driven to find Sarah.
"They are trying to pin it on anybody named Sarah," said Annette, who is back at the YFZ Ranch after more than a week in custody with her six children and five nieces and nephews she is raising.It's increasingly looking like a sole individual has the power to destroy the lives of hundreds of men, women and children, with complicity and force of arms by the state, so long as the victims lifestyles are frowned upon. It's a sad day in the land of the free when a ton of social bias outweighs an ounce of evidence.

----
Over at Say Anything, it appears that the informant may have made it all up, and was just arrested:
A former polygamist sect member says a Colorado Springs woman who called her posing as a young abused girl could be the same person whose complaints led to a massive child protection raid in West Texas.

Former Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints member Flora Jessop said in a phone interview today that she first received a call from a woman, since identified as Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs, claiming to be Sarah on March 31...

Swinton, 33, was arrested at her home Wednesday evening on charges of false reporting in two Colorado cases, but Texas Rangers were present for the arrest, Colorado Springs police said.Anonymous claims are dangerous, and any raid based upon such claims are completely irresponsible. It has yet to be told what exactly happened, but this is another dig at the state's moral authority.

Many of us hold preconceived notions about polygamists, which include underage marriage, statutory rape, and child abuse. That may very well be the case here and in many other polygamist circles, but once we start searching and seizing based on preconceived notions and anonymous claims, rather than empirical evidence, we start hacking away at due process.


at 3:08 PM

| 10 Comments:

Will said...

Due process is as much a joke to or government as the Constitution. We The People have been reduced to little more than a good tax base for government spending.
4/18/2008 7:05 PM Stan said...

And it's our own fault.
4/18/2008 7:13 PM Will said...

You said it, Americans are asleep. Public servants, and ALL of the Military have taken an oath to protect and DEFEND the Constitution! Problem is, no one wants to trouble themselves with actually reading it.
4/18/2008 7:18 PM Stan said...

We can get angry and try to change the laws, try to emphasize rights in the Constitution via the Amendment process, with SC Justices, even call for a rollback of democracy...

But none of our liberty matters, no matter where or how it's written into law, without a vigilant populace. We are lucky when we get good politicians, and thus, good government. We deserve it when when we do not.

With a vigilant populace, not only would good government be easier to achieve, it wouldn't even be necessary.
4/19/2008 2:33 AM Anonymous said...

Hmm, what reason would an african american, Swinton, have for seeking to maliciously ruin the lives of THESE 400+ white kids??..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_Mormonism#Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

answer- She was`nt trying to `help` anyone, nor is she `crazy`, she was trying to get back at a group because they have a membership policy that EXCLUDES BLACKS, which is very well known to the few blacks in the western mountain states. She found a way to set them up for revenge.. which im sure the mainstream media will go to any extreme never to mention.

These FLDS people are nutty by our standards, BUT their daughters arent on ``GIRLS GONE WILD`` flashing their tits for a pornographer who sells the tapes to the pious gentlmen in OUR communitys, and advertises it all over OUR tv channels. Not happening in FLDS,..I didnt see a blade of grass out of place on their land, no trash, no homeless laying about, no slums, no race riots.. which of the two communities has the real problems, theirs or OURS? They are in the middle of the desert minding there own business,.. how many pregnant 14 year olds are running around every public housing project in Houston alone??... 500-1,000? Why is no one taking them from there crack-head, never-married, never worked, mothers, but the white kids all need to be placed in internment camps.
4/19/2008 12:52 PM Stan said...

Apparently she's also a delegate for the Democrats.
4/19/2008 1:50 PM Anonymous said...

An online search reveals that Rozita Swinton (32) has a possible roommate/associate named Christal R. Frakes (39) and/or Virgina Rosamond Morgan (44). A Google search on Christal Frakes is associated with Ecofeminism. My guess is that Rozita Swinton may have been motivated by her feminist associates in the CPS community.

The media keeps portraying the FLDS as intolerant of outside views, but it seems to me the group most intolerant are the radical feminists who hate men more than they love either women or children. The feminists and family court lawyers and judges have built an entire industry around their campaign to minimize men in the lives of their children. When other women don’t cooperate with the feminist agenda, the CPS, Police, Public Schools and Hospitals get involved and present a threat of removing even healthy, well-balanced children from their homes and placing them, in some cases, with known pedophiles. Other beneficiaries of the feminist industry include Planned Parenthood and owned politicos. There is no doubt in my mind that these hundreds of innocent children are in MUCH GREATER DANGER of being physically, emotionally and sexually abused in the homes of complete strangers acting as so-called foster parents than back in their FLDS community. Texas has a terrible history of foster care and juvenile center abuses, and anyone should question the qualifications of foster parents, their background checks, motivation, financial reward, etc. From what I’ve seen on television, these kids look very clean, well fed, polite, and peaceful. Would it be better to convert the girls into anorexic, gang bang saddle tramps? Or to turn the FLDS boys on to Ritalin, violent games and pop culture? I would say the odds are 80% or better that the next news we hear on television is that one of the young girls has been raped by her foster mom’s boyfriend or husband or that one of the babies has been shaken to death by a CPS-friendly child care worker. All the court needs to do is just prosecute any FLDS man who has married an under-age 17 year old. Leave the rest of the community alone. Return these beautiful, healthy, godly children to their parents. Stop trying to usurp the role of parent for the sake of a feminist-run family court industry.

This CPS industry is so large and powerful that our only hope of defeating it is that it will no longer receive tax-funding when our entire economy collapses due to systemic corruption at the highest levels, moral bankruptcy, destruction of the American family, and enormous debt-funding associated with costs of the military, welfare, family court and prison-industrial complex. I hope Texas is the first state to go bankrupt, and I hope it’s this case that is the straw to break the camel’s back.
4/20/2008 12:55 AM yakimabelle said...

Gee, do you think that the media or the state of Texas will get around to stopping the sexual exploitation of poor non-White girls living in slums and barrios? Or worrying about the welfare fraud in barrios and slums?

Of course not. Everyone in social services *knows* that "that's just the way they are" and if anyone suggested saving those poor children from child rape they'd be accused of being a racist and culturally insensitive.

If I had a nickel for every girl under age 16 impregnated by an adult male in the inner city I'd be richer than Bill Gates. I wonder how many of these sanctimonious media and social services types are aware of how many adult men get a share of the monthly welfare check from their teenage girlfriends on the claim - I've only heard it about a thousand times now - that "you wouldn't be getting that money if not for me." These guys often have literally dozens of children by assorted teenage girls; the FLDS guys would be green with envy if they knew the numbers possible if you just shack up for a few hours with teenage girls instead of keeping them around after sex.
4/20/2008 1:44 AM Anonymous said...

The United States of America, a land of Tolerance and diversity... Right. As long as it's Government or Corporate sanctioned.

I don't understand why the self appointed Watch Dog (the all mighty media) is not screaming bloody murder about this one. Under the guise of "protecting the Children" the government has usurped the constitutional rights of these citizens. (Illegal search and seizure, the separation of Church and State, Parental rights etc...) I guess it's OK because these people are sinners... right? They've broken the commandments of the religion of our great society. Isn't that what this is all about?

This is my understanding of what has happened here. Acting on an anonymous tip (we find out later that they knew it was probably a hoax) the government enters these people's home and seizes their children. CPS gets involved. Even though the anonymous caller isn't found and no cases of abuse are discovered, the children are not returned to their parents. (this is state sponsored kidnapping, in case no one noticed).

The judge decides that it's best for the children to remain in the states custody until the criminal hearings have concluded... What criminal hearings? If there isn't an accuser how can there be criminal proceedings? If it's about this polygamy thing... well if it's a spiritual marriage and not a civil marriage then it's none of the governments business!

I mean, we live in a society where it's OK to have sex with whoever and as many people as we choose... If it's the underage thing, well.... we teach our children sex education in grade school... hmmm.

This is all about the children being taught the "Wrong" things by their parents. The government seized these children so they can be taught the "Truth" about things... the wonders of capitalism, the forced equality of the sexes, the pacification of the slaves to their corporate masters... the great "dumb down". I mean really, how can we exist without our drugs (we all have something wrong... need that prescription), without the nightly news, without someone in the box telling us what to think, what to buy, who to hate...

This whole thing makes me sick. Unless the state returns the children to their parents immediately, it will be to late...

Oh and while I'm at it, Damn the "Bad" Chinese government for oppressing those Buddhists... (I wonder how their media is "playing" it to their population.)
4/20/2008 11:07 AM yakimabelle said...

Of course they're being kidnapped on the basis of a hoax. They need to be taught that it is *wrong* to marry young and have more than one wife and that is only acceptable to impregnate a teenage girl and put her and the kid on welfare if you abandon her.

What's wrong with all those folks out there who haven't figured out that the proper way to impregnate a teenage girl is to immediately hide out from her when you find out she is pregnant - and only go back after the baby is born to ask for a share of the welfare check?
4/21/2008 12:34 AM

Munk

every one of you are absolutely right, this is completely uncalled for. why should they have concern about a community that has been living strong for 3? 4? years? its wrong that they destroyed these people's lives. those men were completely happy having their adolescent wives. how could it be any better for the women and children there? instead of a life they get to choose, they are grilled from birth that we (the rest of society) is evil and disgusting and we only wanna demoralize and abuse women and children in our everyday lives. thats what we live for, right? they must enjoy it more there to be forced into a marriage with someone more then twice their age that already has 3 other wives of varying ages, along with about 7 kids, the oldest of which (13?) is about to be married off to his best buddy. a nice little bed right there in the alter room that has been claimed to be a place of 'resting' during long sermons?
i completely agree with freedom and the practice of what you feel is the correct religion. i personally do not accept religion on any aspect, so what i see this group is doing is just immoral. they have completely taken away these kids rights to live. i know it happens everywhere and i know that this is the one and only time the government has tried to step in and actually help someone. i know that there is never a presence of help anywhere at all when it comes to kids. and, again, your right, the government should be able to see every single act of child abuse in order to try and prevent it. so, if thats what you people feel should happen, then why is there such a problem with the patriot act? just a little tweeking here and there, and they could monitor every single person in this country, then it would be alot easier to find out where these problems occur.
yeah, teenage pregnancy is everywhere and in every school, but as far as im aware, i dont think very many of those teen pregnancies have been 'forced' upon them. you do understand what force is, right? for a girl to be pregnant due to her promiscuous nature is one thing, but you cannot compare that to a girl that has been raised to believe these ridiculous accusations of reality throughout her entire life.
their community, im sure, was well more relaxed and probably safer, but again that comes with the price of brainwashing. every community in the US could be just as safe and 'pretty' if we decided to completely oppress women, people of ethnicity, and anyone who will not comply with the new regulations as posted by the new constitution that will need to be drafted.
and lastly....did you not realize that the leader of this sect was arrested a while back after he had forced a 14yr old girl to marry hist 40+ cousin, also forcing her to have sex with him.
yeah, theres nothing wrong with these people, leave them alone!!!

Dajaring

Munk oh my god where do I start?

First you honestly have no fcking clue about what this argument is all about do you?

Second you are wrong on nearly every single fact you posted. For instance the 14 yr old that Jeffs performed the marriage rights for was married to her own 19 year old cousin, their combined choice! She later on complained about having to have sex with him and the FLDS leader said it was her wifely duties to submit.

Did you know a 14 year old and a 19 year old can legally have sex with each other in NC?

Anyway please get a clue about what this is about. It is about the government taking 460 innocent children out of their mother's arms with out due process.

I hope your Ritalin kicks in before you post again.

same as before

Spousal rape laws, or even the concept of raping a spouse, are pretty new developments. In fact, until the late 1970s, spouses were typically excluded from sexual assault laws.

Until 1993, North Carolina's rape law stated that “a person may not be prosecuted under this article if the victim is the person's legal spouse at the time of the commission of the alleged rape or sexual offense, unless the parties are living separate and apart.”
Currently, spousal rape is a crime in all 50 states but the degrees vary greatly.

State laws began to change in the late 1970s when reformers challenged the spousal rape exemptions in courtrooms and legislatures, but in some cases, change was slow in coming.
As of 2003, it still wasn't a crime in 20 states for a husband to have non-consensual sex with his wife while she was mentally incapacitated or physically helpless, according to Anderson's book.

Munk

well, i cannot admit to knowing every fact in every detail, all i know is that he is in jail, he is the leader of this cult. and i know exactly what this is about, just as many other religious beliefs are about the same thing (at least in practice), the suppression of women. i may not know ever single detail about this situation, but i have yet to see any of these groups seclude themselves for equal opportunity amongst all their followers. usually, its a man that holds the 'leader' position and any other position of power, the women are treated as second rate citizens, maid servents, or worse. everyone is brainwashed from birth to believe the lies about how bad and 'evil' the 'real world' is beyond the walls of their little 'sanctuary'. how all the people are heratics that want nothing more then to abuse you, and how its so much safer in their little compound. that they will be shielded and protected from the outside world.
not too much different then the way people were in that movie 'Silent Hill'. they all thaught it was the end of the world and that everyone outside their little town had died. what they believed in protected them from what they thaught was evil, yet as it turned out, from their actions, they were the evil ones being punished for their dispicable crimes.
you must be a man for you to see this as an invasion of privacy and rights. no need to go in there, no 'man' was being harmed in the least. as long as its the women that are being abused, its ok, cuz that happens in our communities too.
as i said before, i agree 100% that people should have the freedom to believe and preach anything they want, but when you force those beliefs onto someone else, your invading that other person's right to freedom of choice, then your in the wrong, especially when preaching lies about the society your supposed to be a part of.
every bit of information i have about this particular topic has been from the dozen or so articles ive read on it in the past couple months. if my information is wrong, then i dont think anyone knows exactly whats going on with this. and to be honest, that wouldnt be much of a suprise to me.

lastly, you can say what you want about me, im only expressing my opinions about what ive read and heard. ive frequented enough blogs to know that your probably gonna make an attempt to discredit my intelligence or label me in some way as Darjaring refering that i need ritilin in order to suppress my thoughts. i dont take meds of any forms, i personally do not trust all these pills they are pushing on America, but thats a different subject...and no im not some conspiracy nut or anything like that.

Hope

A Differing View ~
This is not about religious freedom

We have plenty of weird religions that are allowed to practice as they see fit, but it is illegal to force a child into a "spiritual marriage" for the sake of procreation.

1. Polygamy is illegal in the state of Texas

2. Forcing female children into "spiritual marriages" at the onset of puberty, is illegal in the state of Texas.
-----------------
"If any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man; then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified."

(Moore-Emmett, A. God's Brothel:

The Extortion of Sex for Salvation in Contemporary Mormon and Christian Fundamentalist... .)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1930074131/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

-------------------

She was 14, she told the court, when Jeffs ordered her into a "spiritual marriage" with her first cousin, a 19-year-old at the time, and then forced her to have sex with him. Such marriages are not legally recognized. Jeffs allegedly told the woman her salvation depended on her compliance.

In court, the young woman sobbed, cried and dabbed at tears as Jess watched her dispassionately. She described learning of her spiritual marriage,

and said she was horrified and resisted.

She also described the horror of her husband trying to consummate their marriage, which eventually he did.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6520837

(Where is the caring, peaceful, protective mother or father?)

---------------------------------------------

We have been trying to get people interested in the sexual abuse of young males and females for years.

Hope4KidZ began this Forum Thread in 2006, so this is not something new to those of us who have worked with Flora Jessop.

http://www.runboard.com/bhope4kidzfindingsolutions4children.f11.t22069
---------------------------------------

May 3, 2005 ·
In 2002, Warren Jeffs succeeded his father Rulon as prophet of the FLDS.

Jeffs is said to keep a tight grip on the polygamous community, using wives as rewards for loyalty among followers.

In April of 2001, Ruby Jessop attempted to break away from an oppressive and abusive isolated community in Colorado City, Arizona after being forced to marry her step-brother. She received insufficient support from government authorities in Utah and Arizona and ended up back under the control of her authoritarian, isolationist community of the FLDS Church polygamists . Since then she's rarely been seen in public, never unescorted. When a girl has tried to run the polygamists isolate them away and re-educate them. Ruby hasn't been able to speak to any outsider since she was returned to the polygamists.

The polygamists fight very hard to get these girls back.

Ruby's sister, Flora Jessop, with John Walsh before taping a segment for his show.

They use threats, intimidation, subterfuge, and they have a legal firm on retainer that is used to manipulate the legal system.

The girls of the FLDS are brought up to be married off at the earliest possible age. The Elders pick husbands for them, usually polygamous men who are much older than they. Sometimes these girls aren’t even aware they are to be married until the day of the marriage.

These children are brought up in a secluded, deprived environment. They are given minimal educational opportunities, don’t watch TV, listen to radio, nor go to movies. They are taught that "outsiders" are of Satan, to be avoided. They are woefully ignorant of the outside world and are taught that forced marriages to older men is normal. Their self-esteem is almost non-existant.


http://helpthechildbrides.com/

Hope

To read the entire thesis, you have to want to become knowledgeable about this group of people and how they have ended up back in Texas.

Just how peaceful, loving, and caring are these people?

If someone told you to throw your 7 children off the 11th story balcony of a hotel, would you do it?

Some of you can guess with I would tell the sick puck, just before I blew their brains out if they came near my child!

http://www.mormonismi.net/kirjoitukset/lebaron_vakivalta.shtml

"Mormon Fundamentalism and Violence: A Historical Analysis
Garn LeBaron Jr.
--------------------------------------------

And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God.1

In August 1972, followers of Ervil Morel LeBaron murdered his brother, Joel LeBaron as part of a power struggle for control of their particular polygamist church group. **Ervil LeBaron quickly became the leader of the Church of the Lamb of God and proceeded to direct his followers in the murders of more than thirty people, all of them members of various polygamist groups.** These murders included the execution style killing of prominent Salt Lake City polygamist leader Rulon Allred, as well as several members who tried to leave the LeBaron sect.2

Before LeBaron died in the Utah State Penitentiary in 1981, he authored a book entitled "The Book of New Covenants," which detailed a list of former followers who were to die in the name of God. **Throughout the 1980's, children of LeBaron murdered several former church members in Dallas, Houston, Utah, and Mexico.3**

In July 1978, the former David Longo, who had himself re-christened Immanuel David, drove a truck up a canyon east of Salt Lake City and proceeded to commit suicide by asphyxiating himself on the exhaust of the vehicle. Three days later, **his wife ordered or pushed each of their seven children off the 11th floor balcony of a prominent Salt Lake City hotel to their deaths on the pavement below. She finally jumped herself, thus ending the grisly multiple homicide/suicide scene.4**

In 1979, a long running battle between John Singer and Summit County, over whether Singer should be allowed to educate his children at home, came to a striking climax when Singer was shot and killed by police when he resisted their attempts to arrest him. Singer had refused to accept court judgements that his children needed to be educated in the public schools. He was shot during the attempted arrest when police feared that he would shoot one of them.5

On July 24, 1984, Ronald and Dan Lafferty went to the home of their brother Allen, located in American Fork, Utah, and slit the throats of his wife and fifteen month old child with a ten inch hunting knife. Ron and Dan later claimed that they had received a revelation from God telling them to kill these individuals, and that an additional revelation had instructed them to flee to Reno where they were to gamble and binge on booze, pot, and whores.6

In January of 1988, Adam Swapp bombed a Mormon Stake Center in Kamas, Utah in retaliation for the death of his father-in-law, John Singer, who was killed by police nine years earlier. Swapp and his family then proceeded to hold off an army of police officers and federal agents in a 13 day standoff before police finally stormed their cabin and took them into custody following a violent gun battle in which one officer was killed.7 ..........."


http://www.mormonismi.net/kirjoitukset/lebaron_vakivalta.shtml

Like a bunch of sheep to the slaughter, doing whatever The Prophet tells them to do...

Hope

31 of 53 teen girls at FLDS ranch are pregnant or had baby (the second teen to give birth since being in foster care.)

SAN ANTONIO - More than half the teen girls taken from a polygamist compound in west Texas have children or are pregnant, state officials said Monday.

A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3 1/2 weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. Two of those are pregnant now, he said; it was unclear whether either of those two already have children.

"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.

State officials took custody of all 463 children at the ranch controlled by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, saying a pattern of teen girls forced into underage "spiritual" marriages and sex with much older men created an unsafe environment for the sect's children.

Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but none of these girls is believed to have a legal marriage under state law.

A call seeking comment from FLDS spokesman Rod Parker was not immediately returned. Church officials have denied that any children were abused at the ranch and say the state's actions are a form of religious persecution.

Civil-liberties groups and lawyers for the children have criticized the state for sweeping all the children, from nursing infants to teen boys, into foster care when only teen girls are alleged to have been sexually abused.

No one has been charged since the raid, which was prompted by a series of calls to a domestic abuse hotline, purportedly from a 16-year-old forced into a marriage recognized only by the sect with a man three times her age. That girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the call was a hoax.

On Monday, CPS also revised its total count of children in state custody to 463, up one from Friday. Azar said the change resulted from finally getting the children out of the San Angelo Coliseum and into foster facilities around the state, where they were able to get a more accurate count.

Of those 463 children, 250 are girls and 213 are boys.

The sect, which broke from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints more than a century ago, believes polygamy brings glorification in heaven. Its leader, Warren Jeffs, is revered as a prophet. Jeffs was convicted last year in Utah of forcing a 14-year-old girl into marriage with an older cousin.


Tre Benson

No problems here with labeling these members of the FLDS a bunch of lunatics. In fact if I was King I'd find me one or two of the violators and chop their pee-pees off.

Lots of people load children into microwaves and drown them in bathtubs because God said so. These FLDS followers more than likely aren't the most well adapted creatures on the face of the earth otherwise why hang-around?

My problem with this is the way the theft of the 400 children came about. 400 children placed into God knows what sort of foster care (don't make me list the long deadly history of the Texan Child Protective Services Agency and their Foster Program) and trauma these kids are suffering at the hands of "experts" as they literally poke and prod each child's physical being and psychologically twist and shape the belief systems and awareness each individual child possesses. These kids were stolen because of a fake police report delivered in a neat package tied together by a fanatical refugee of this cult.

No one has mentioned how old the husbands are of these pregnant teens. Some could have husbands 2, 3, 5 years older and no crime would have taken place.

But the entire state of Texas has "rescued" these children from evil, perhaps but why stop there, why not go into impoverished communities and snatch up those kids suffering neglect, poor diets, drugs, alcohol, abuse and high rates of teenage pregnancy? Why not go in and take children from muslim communities in the US indoctrinating their children on the reasons to veil women and a woman's place in the world of men? Why not round up all the children whose parents had their male children's genitalia mutilated by circumcision for cosmetic purposes?

This is a multicultural, diverse world we live in and once some eggheaded do gooder has it within their means to yank children out of the arms of their mothers to protect them against the remote POSSIBILITY of harm we have a serious problem. These children weren't snatched away just before the bus hit them, these kids were snatched away when someone discovered a bus somewhere nearby, motor possibly disengaged.

I have a well documented history of being a child advocate. There isn't a child's cry I do not hear. But I am also a parent with set ways in which I choose to raise my child. (mostly it is whatever my wife says) To me there is no law that is strong enough that would be able to pull my child from me or my wife's arms because someone THINKS my child may be in danger of SOMEONE in my neighborhood. I might add, someone that has not been identified yet.

Trust me I understand the passion, but I also understand how some of these innocent children may have faced serious trauma at the hands of authorities to protect the few. Collateral damage is unacceptable when it comes to the lives of children, totally unacceptable. And I am afraid when all this is over and done, the 6, 18, 399 children who will limp away from all this will be forgotten. We have no more right to go into their homes and remove them from their family than we do to go into the home of a poor child and take them because we know that poor children have smaller brains, thus poverty causes brain damage.

http://neuroanthropology.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/poverty-poisons-the-brain/

Or that we remove the obese children because their lives are in danger.

http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/Overweight/index.htm

HOW SOON WE FORGET

The Children of God were founded in 1968 in southern California by a charismatic Baptist minister called David Berg. At first, Berg preached a simple back-to-basics gospel, prophesizing the second coming of Jesus. But as his popularity grew, his sermon became more disturbing. By the early '80s Berg's band of hippie followers had mobilized into a disciplined army of converts. Changing their name to The Family, they fanned out across the globe.

River Phoenix and his family were part of that cult.

But did you know they used children in their sexual practices?

Today, The Family's leadership is headed by Berg's widow Karen Zerby, under whom the group has both bowed to several reforms and initiated additional unconventional doctrines, including the "Loving Jesus revelation" which encourages members from the age of 14 to engage in a sexual relationship with Jesus.
The group's liberal sexuality and its publication and distribution of writings, photographs and videos advocating and documenting adult-child sexual contact and the sexualization of children have led to numerous reports of child abuse. Family leadership, admitting only that that some children were abused from 1978 until 1986, created policies prohibiting excessive discipline or any sexual contact between adults and minors. From 1989 until the present, The Family has issued numerous contradictory statements regarding when it enacted these policies and what these policies were. The Family has stated at various times that it banned and made adult-child sexual contact an excommunicable offense in 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988 and 1989. Investigations in several countries have found The Family to currently to be a safe environment for children, but such investigations have also brought to light a troubled past. Many critics do not trust The Family to police itself today, due in part to the group's policy of not turning child abusers over to civil authorities, and only excommunicating members who abused children after July 1989[1]. The Family requires individuals who report child abuse to a law enforcement agency or pursue legal action against an alleged abuser to leave the group's communal homes and move to a lower commitment membership status until the matter is resolved, after which they must reapply for their former membership status if they wish to return.

Jehovah's Witnesses, Wiccans, Catholics, you name it they all have their problems with abusing the innocence of children.

Google, "exorcism death" and see what horrors come up.

As I said this is a strange world and every single child's life is in danger. The last thing we need is someone conjuring up demons where demons do not exist.

Children who are abused grow up, there is no statute of limitations for Felonies. Having sex with a child is certainly a Felony. If that's not enough ammo to discourage a child molester then whatelse can we do, unless there is. evidence, a witness or a child who has made a complaint?

You can't round all the suspects up, go thru their dirty laundry and search every microscopic bit of soil, linen, and DNA hoping to find something. We are protected against that sort of illegal search by the 4th Amendment.

The authorities entered the compound on a bad warrant, they violated the constitutional rights of not only the innocent but those who are screwing these kids. No one will be convicted because of it and all it has done is ruined the lives of the children, the victims.

Hope

>>>why not go into impoverished communities and snatch up those kids suffering neglect, poor diets, drugs, alcohol, abuse and high rates of teenage pregnancy? <<<<

Unfortunately, Texas, as with many other states, is going into impoverished communities and snatching up children and taking them from their families, and placing them in more harm by placing them in foster care.

Representative Suzannah Gratia Hupp, in a TV interview, stated, "Children in foster care are 5 times more likely to be seriously injured or killed than children in the general population" i.e.: not in foster care.

Texas State Comptroller, Carole Strayhorn, stated, the same words except she stated children in foster care were 4 times more likely to be seriously injured or killed in Texas State foster care, than in the general population.

I do not have the answers and I know that foster care in Texas is beyond repair, but I also have personal knowledge of the YFZ compound and know a lot of their history. It seems like a lose-lose situation.

I wish I had more answers than questions but this much I know, the problem with the foster care system is not the janitor!
The head needs a good whacking and replacement of bassackward thinking supervisors and administrators.

Caseworkers are the ones who will bear the brunt of responsiblity for decisions made by their supervisors; decisions they are required to carry out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VEhdOOOzZg

The above is a fact-based slide/video, using the stats from The Forgotten Children's Report
http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/forgottenchildren/ch05/s0501.html
Child on Child Abuse is rampant and largely goes unreported.

We have a desperate mother and father in Michigan:

The world was able to see when little Elian Gonzalez was ripped from his maternal families' home by SWAT teams; the terror on his face spoke a thousand words.

What few grasp is that MANY families are going through the same thing, without the media there to report this incredible assault on families.

Literally, SWAT teams removing children from their families in the middle of the night based on unsubstantiated allegations of abuse, reported in March by two angry ex-tenants, and the allegations state these events occurred in January! Two month old allegations made by a nut-case!

Where is the exigency?
Where is the imminent danger?
SWAT Teams!~ WTH!~

These people are not terrorists!
http://www.youtube.com/user/9069327400
----------

Texas can't take proper care of the children already in foster care.

In the Austin Statesman, Strayhorn said that "the increase in foster child deaths outpaces the increase in children in the system. There were about 26,133 children in Texas foster care in 2003 and about 32,474 in 2005, an increase of 24 percent.

The comptroller's findings so far include data showing that in the 2004 budget year (which ended Aug. 31, 2004),
--63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system,
--142 children and teens gave birth while in the system, and about
--100 received treatment for poisoning caused by medications they were given while in care.

"The state is supposed to be protecting our forgotten children, but in all too many cases these children are taken from one abusive situation and placed in another abusive situation," said Strayhorn"

I would like to know when the Federal Government is going to say, enough is enough! Texas is failing children in state foster care and continues to take children into care at alarming rates, based on such trivial allegations that I am amazed any judge would allow the removal of children based on these ridiculous Affidavits filed by the caseworkers.

I have some that you can view. I can remove the children's names.

I don't know what should happen with the FLDS at YFZ, but it is known that these people have a history of violence among themselves and will do whatever the Prophet tells them to do.

If that means slitting their children's throats or throwing them off an 11-story balcony, there is considerable and valid concern that the children would "go to Zion" much sooner if they had not been removed before raiding the compound.

Remember, there was a person on the inside of the compound who was giving information to the Sheriff for four years. We don't know everything they know, or if the Sheriff knew anything factual.

At least this did not result in the numbers of children who died with the Branch Davidians in Waco.

We work with the legislators and have learned that even when they KNOW a child is in SERIOUS danger of being killed in foster care, the legislators and the comptroller learned they could not do anything to save "Angela" from the grips of CPS.
http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/forgottenchildren/ch05/s0501angela.html

This was an "Awakening" for those in positions of authority, who knew this child was in danger, knew her mother had not abused her, knew her family was in law enforcement, and knew this child needed to go home, but no one can MAKE CPS do the right thing.

The woman who knocked this 14 year-old child down the stairs of the facility (CADI) she was placed in, was a three time loser from the FL Dept. of Corrections. Breaking "Angela's" femur at the hip joint, leaving her without proper medical care for two weeks, allowed Osteomyelitis (severe bone infection) to set in and she is crippled for life!

No One Was Charged With A Crime against This Child.
The little footnote (1), is from me sneaking a video camera into her hospital room and recording her statement of who did what, when, where, and how. The DA refused to prosecute this three time loser from FL, Genesis Black. The police didn't get so much as a statement from her, and we gave them her exact address (She's a jumper).

WHY?

I do not know what to do, and at times, feel absolutely helpless to help the children who are forced to endure the conditions in Texas State Foster Care.

When are the Texas Rangers going to raid some of these Residential Foster Care Facilities? I love the Texas Rangers, but this is one area they do not seem to be able to touch either.

Follow the Money$$$$$$$

This is not only in Texas, or only the U.S., this is an international problem.

NO one seems to know how to prevent the "protectors" from abusing children in state foster care.

So, I have very mixed feelings about what is going on here, in Canada, in the UK, in Germany, and in my own backyard!

I will suck my last breath working to make a difference in the lives of children, and work toward controlling this "beast" known as Child Protective Services.


Hope

In the Austin Statesman, Strayhorn said that "the increase in foster child deaths outpaces the increase in children in the system. There were about 26,133 children in Texas foster care in 2003 and about 32,474 in 2005, an increase of 24 percent.

The comptroller's findings so far include data showing that in the 2004 budget year (which ended Aug. 31, 2004),

--63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system,
--142 children and teens gave birth while in the system, and about
--100 received treatment for poisoning caused by medications they were given while in care.

WoW!! Tre!!

"31 of 53 teen girls at FLDS ranch are pregnant or had baby"

The media splashed this from all four corners of the U.S.

The Forgotten Children's Report didn't make news outside of Texas, and not much media in Texas bothered reporting this in-depth investigation by the Texas State Comptroller

--142 children and teens gave birth while in the system

31 FLDS, and 142 in foster care, were pregnant or gave birth... hmmmmm

Hope

"We are protected against that sort of illegal search by the 4th Amendment."

Well, we thought we were protected against illegal searches but some due diligence on the Exclusionary Rule appears to have eroded the 4th Amendment to the point of making it worthless.

Tre Benson

Read the paper?

Mental health workers criticize state's care of sect children

05/11/2008

Associated Press


Mental health workers sent to help care for the women and children removed from a polygamist sect's West Texas ranch are criticizing Child Protective Services, saying the state's decision to seek custody of the children was unnecessary and traumatizing.

In a set of unsigned written reports made at the request of their regional governing board, workers with Hill Country Community Mental Health-Mental Retardation Center said that the CPS investigation of suspected child abuse and its decision to seek state custody of all 464 children punished mothers who appeared to be good parents of healthy, emotionally normal kids, the San Antonio Express-News reported for its Sunday editions.

"The mothers are incredibly loving and patient with the children. The children were well-socialized and well-behaved and interacted willingly and happily with us," one wrote.

Another wrote, "The children were sweet and well-mannered upon our arrival. They obeyed their mothers and appeared to be healthy and well-nourished. They had none of the traditional withdrawal common in abused children."

A board member provided the newspaper copies of the nine reports by MHMR employees. The reports reveal varying degrees of anger toward the state's child welfare agency for removing the children from their community, separating them from their mothers or for the way CPS workers conducted themselves at the shelter.

Hope

>>Hill Country Community Mental Health-Mental Retardation Center<<<

Anything that begins with "Hill Country" raises my suspicions; although, many areas of Texas consider themselves to be Hill Country.

Some of my personal, worst experiences in dealing with children abused in foster care, come from Hill Country Youth Ranch. They have the soft-fuzzy web site, but to hear the children speak of their experiences there, would curl one's toes. Most people have told me that they cannot bear to listen to what these chldren say in these several seconds of sound bites.
If we as adults cannot bear to listen to what the children are saying, we need to grow up and listen to these children. Grow some courage and care enough to listen, then write letters to the Texas Governor (which he will forward to the Ombudsman, who will then call the caseworker, and respond with whatever the caseworker tells him is going on)
http://www.hope4kidz.org/kids_cry/kids_cry.html

>>April 5, 2003 A civil trial involving a lawsuit brought against Hill Country Youth Ranch ended when a settlement was reached between the defendants and two brothers who claimed they were molested at the facility ten years ago. <<

It took ten years to convict the pedophiles! The Director of Counseling was told to stop reporting the sexual abuse of the youngest boys at Hill Country Youth Ranch or pack her bags. She packed up and left.

We not only read the news, but also keep it fairly up-to-date at:

Statewide News

The below link is to news about "our" kids.
H4K's Kids In The News

Given CPS track record in Texas,

2002 - 44 kids in DPRS care died

2003 - 30 kids in DPRS care died

2005 - 48 kids in DPRS care died

(TX State Comptroller, Forgotten Children's Report)
I have asked many times, if we knew a particular home would be five times more deadly for a child, would we continue to place children into that home?

Then why the hell are we continuing to take children into the Texas Foster Care system. The Governor, Lt. Governor, Representative Suzannah Gratia Hupp (head of Foster Care Review Committee, now retired), and Senator Jane Nelson have been quoted saying, The Foster Care System Is Broken.

Next thing we know, we have an extra "463 children to protect them from possible abuse."

It is not uncommon for children to be removed from their homes based on a Risk Assessment. This is an assessment of the possible future risk that may occur and thousands of parents have lost their children for no less than a worker says the child is at risk for Possible Future Risk of Harm.

Thank you Tre for helping me to see this raid in a totally different light. I am still very unsure what should happen to stop the forced marriages of these girls, and I would love nothing more than to help Flora Jessop find her sister, Ruby, but this is truly insane.

Every time a parent calls me who has never had an altercation with CPS, they are on the verge of losing it.

No one can believe this can happen to them, until their children are taken. I used to think, "If CPS is involved in someone's life, there must be a good reason."

I have Affidavits used by Social Workers to remove children from their families and they are the most absurd documents, that should never have been allowed in a court of law. But, family courts do not practice law. They seem to do whatever the judge wants to do.

A reporter told me that if a judge in Texas tells me to show up in my skivvies (frightening thought), I had best show up in my skivvies.

What do we do when a state is completely out of control?

There do not appear to be any attorneys who will take the state of Texas on in a lawsuit filed on behalf of the civil rights violations of children in state foster care.

Texas Foster Care is Deadly!

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