"LEGAL" CHILD PORN

The Sunday New York Times printed an article about "legal" child pornography. That's right I said LEGAL!

We have brought this up before ourselves regarding the Webe company out of Florida that publishes online a series of teen and preteen models in various states of undress. Non-nude images of children in sexual poses is the new way to skirt authorities when pedophiles search out images to fantasize about.

Contrary to initial published stories it has been reported recently that the Dakota Fanning movie Hound Dog did not film Dakota nude, instead we are told that she wore a body stocking, reported by a spokesperson of the movie's production company. We have heard various eyewitness reports as to how she was dressed, if you can call it that, in pasties and panties and one report said she was in a strapless bikini top and panties. The news media got upset with us because we claimed Dakota was undressed. To us and several people we talked with, a flesh colored body stocking, or pasties and panties is not being dressed. It may be something Hollywierded out folk wear around the mall or school in California or even New York City but not what most of us consider being "dressed" here in Mayberry, USA.

Surely they will think of a way to shoot the scene when her father is crawling into bed with her nude in a way that we will not believe it was sexual, we won't think of sex when we see Dakota's character curiously watching her father masturbate, nor will we think of a sex act when we see the 9 year old and the 10 year old boy laying naked on the floor while they kiss and fondle each other.

How do you boil a frog?

To boil a frog you must place the frog into a pot filled with temperate water and gradually bring the water to a boil. Apparently you can't place a frog into a hot pot, he knows better.

Same thing with us. Little by little the temperature increases and before we know it we are cooked. Dakota Fanning's movie may not be something that disturbs everyone but then again why would it? Could it be because our 4 and 5 year old daughters that we enrolled in dance class are taught to shimmy and shake as if they were dancing for tips at Tailfeathers and we keep sending them back for more? Do we not know the difference between a Mouseketeer and a half to three quarters naked, nearly legal, Britney Spears?

How far have we come? How much farther will we go?

Some have argued that Hound Dog is the artistic expression of a sex abuse victim that has created a movie that will heal other victims thru the message in the film. The films apparent message according to the script is wait till your father dies from a snake bite rather than report the offender to authorities, seek counseling and follow through in court?

The other comment has been, very few people will find interest in this story and the movie will simply go away. Go away to where? The production company owes its investors a return on the money invested. DVD's will hit the market complete with a director's cut and added scenes that will cater to the sick and twisted. It will not be hard to package this and sell it to millions of pedophiles.

That's right I said millions. Take a look at the internet traffic on the "legal child porn" site I mentioned above. The numbers of people flocking to that site is in the millions. Most of whom are paying $30 a month to have access to it. And there is no nudity, none! Just children posing in bathing suits and revealing clothing while they arch their backs, bend over, and suck on a finger or phallic.

A DVD of the sweet, innocent, Dakota Fanning being raped, fondling a 10 year old boy, dancing about in her underwear will easily recoup the reported 5 million dollar cost to film the movie.

The other argument is that whatever was shot will not be anything of sexually explicit material.

But the federal law regarding "sexually explicit" defines it as “actual or simulated”
(A) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;
(B) bestiality;
(C) masturbation;
(D) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(E) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any
person.

more on federal law and child pornography

Some of these "legal" modeling sites have already attracted the attention of law enforcement. Earlier this year, prosecutors obtained a guilty plea on child pornography charges from Sheila L. Sellinger, then of Shoals, Ind., who had been selling photographs of her 10-year-old daughter on a modeling Web site. Last month, Ms. Sellinger was sentenced to almost 12 years in prison.

All of the photographs taken of her daughter and displayed on the internet were of her clothed. Not one nude and yet the Mom is going to prison for 12 years.

According to the Executive Office for United States Attorneys, total federal prosecutions of child pornography and abuse cases rose 358%, from 344 cases in FY 1995 to 1,576 cases in FY 2005, and the increase in prosecutions continues unabated. Likewise, the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section (CEOS) within the Department's Criminal Division increased its caseload, including child pornography cases and investigations, by more than 400% over three years.

Beginning to feel the heat now?

MUST GO TO THIS LINK -> http://bluelineradio.com/lilamber806.html

Comments

[junebug]

i dont know if i wanted to know these things or not. i am stunned. to imagine there are men out there doing these things with children is a harsh reality but i never really cared or feared because there didnt seem to be one of these preditors in every town of america. it seems like it happens every now and then.

but oh my god if this is right, there i a perv on every street.

these are children. i can understand if they were women with breasts. but these are children.

that dakota child is in a big mess. she was used big time.

my my my

makes me want to hide all the children

[Steve]

Obviously, we can't hide away our children. What we CAN do is go on the offensive every time we see a case or a trend in that direction. If it means taking down a perverted mother, fine. If it's Hollywood, so much the better, because that's where the focal point of this evil lies in the final analysis. What we need is good prosecutors on all levels who aren't afraid to do battle with the film industry and all the vast resources it commands. That's probably asking a lot, but ask we must... and demand.

[jeannie]

Hi,
Please view Paul Petersens take on "Hounddog". http://www.minorcon.org/dakota_fanning1.html
My own child is in the indrustry and I am shocked at many of the current auditions taking place that are just plain sick. For example we nee a girl 8 to 12 to audition for our movie,she get's "gang raped"!!! GROSS!!!

[Tre Benson]

Paul Petersen, I remember him from the Donna Reed Show. Didn't he also have some hit song back way way long ago?

I would suspect that he has a pretty good idea on how the business works with children.

I hope to find a way to contact him.

Thank you for passing this along.

[Jeannie]

Contact him by fax I lost his phone number. I had his cell and home but lost both.

A Minor Consideration
14530 Denker Ave
Gardena CA. 90247

FAX: 310 523-3691

It would be cool if you could interview him.

[Steve]

Dear Tre and Jeannie: You can email him by hitting the "feedback" icon on the top of the page. Mr. Petersen was one of several former child actors featured in a panel of commentators on an A&E documentary. It's still being run on occasion. Check for it in the TV listings. It's worth watching.

[Steve]

Oh, by the way: If you see that documentary, note these two quotes I copied down from it. They're very relevant.

Paul Petersen: "I was earning three times what my father was at the age of twelve. Guess who's wants took precedence in the family?"

Lukas Haas: "How can you do your job and say your lines without knowing what's going on?"

You might remember Haas as the child actor who portrayed the hunted Amish boy in "Witness". He's a young man in his twenties now and still acting.

[4Corners]

Why does Petersen think the crew of Hound Dog was non-union?

Why does Petersen think the state of North Carolina doesn't have any child labor laws?

[Tre Benson]

Both the Director and the First AD are not DGA. http://www.dga.org

Perhaps 491 has a contract/agreement with them in regards to local crew. I did see a good number of names on the call sheet that I know are members of 491. But then again it is a right to work state, or so they tell me.

The Child Labor Laws in North Carolina are suspended to accommodate the movie industry.

http://www.wilmington-film.com/nc_info.htm

Hope this has been helpful.

[4Corners]

It's not unusual for essentially first-time directors not to be in the DGA. Quentin Tarantino was non-DGA for his first few films. Robert Rodriguez is not in the DGA. There are many other examples, particularly in lower budget situations. If the show doesn't use a DGA director, they HAVE to use a non-DGA First AD. The DGA won't allow a DGA First AD to work with a non-DGA director.

Hound Dog did have a contract with IATSE for the production, as did SAG. And teamsters were paid benefits.

AS the show was a SAG show, SAG Child Labor laws were in place for the production. As SAG Rules are stronger than individual state labor laws in the case of film production they usually take precedence, as was the case with Hound Dog and virtually every other SAG show ever filmed in NC. Which is why North Carolina is able to "suspend" its child labor laws in the case of film production without worry of abuses of that sort occurring.

So it's not like because, as was implied in Petersen's article, NC's Child Labor laws weren't in practice that films shot in North Carolina aren't subject to any Child Labor laws at all. They are. And they're subject to more strident laws than are present under North Carolina legislation.

And, of course, a representative of SAG Child Labor rules, in the form of Dakota Fanning's tutor, was present for the filming of all the scenes in question here as well, to oversee filming conditions and make sure all guidelines were met.

[4Corners]

By the way, this was Petersen's comment:

[quote]What message was the non-union crew sending when it walked off the set during Dakota's rape scene?[/quote]

That's what I was referring to. By saying the film was non-DGA, did you mean to imply that the director herself walked off the set during the filming of this scene?

I'm sure you didn't.

But Petersen is wrong when he assumes that just because North Carolina is a Right to Work state, that Hound Dog or in fact most productions here are non-union. Just as he is wrong to imply that North Carolina is like some kind of lawless wild-west state in which any kind of rogue production can get away film practices or legal indiscretions that fall below industry or legal standards for other states.

Look, I don't mind Petersen attacking Hound Dog. It may end up to be the worst film ever produced and may never see the light of day - I don't care. But I don't appreciate efforts by him and others to impugn the entire state of North Carolina and its hard-working crewbase, of which you are a member, in the process.

And if he or you or anyone else is gonna take Hound Dog to task, they should at least make sure they've got all the facts straight before they start slinging mud, or else they end up undermining their own arguments through their own ignorance. There are plenty of valid reasons to attack Hound Dog without having to fabricate non-existent ones.

[Tre Benson]

Thank you for your information. However SAG rules are not State laws. IATSE has a rule that we all eat within six hours of general call. What happens when the AD calls for grace? The rule is temporarily waved. Same thing with turnarounds, travel, medic onset, 6th day, etc. What you can't call grace for is the Law. And in this show that is an important piece of what argument I think Petersen addresses when talking about the potential for negligence when it comes to the protection of a child's well being. I don't want to speak for him, he will do plenty of that on our show this Saturday, but there is a major difference between SAG rules and State Law. I've most likely worked 30- 50 SAG jobs. I have seen my fair share of leaving a decision up to the actor, as he faces two producers, a UPM and an AD about an issue that will save production a buck or two. SAG rules get waved all the time on set, usually by an actor under the gun.

In the IASTE by-laws are union members allowed to work a nonunion film production jobs? If they are allowed that then do they have to pay the local for that nonunion work out of their own pocket?

You and I both know the law was suspended because of money. I remember Petersen argued this with Harry Payne the NC State Labor Commissioner way back when.

I hope you see my point. Rules are not laws. Rules can be bent, Laws cannot.

A word about the lack of DGA membership. When you have a troop leader that does not understand the LAWS, much less the RULES you have the potential for a critical disaster on your hands. I believe if you were on the crew that was extremely evident throughout the entire shoot. Exactly how many rules were bent to accommodate this serious lack of experience and poor judgement?

Thanks for your comments.

Go Duke!

[4Corners]

SAG rules are based on and draw their power from state law.

The California Certified Studio Teacher, whose presence is mandated for the protection of a minor working three or more consecutive days on any SAG signatory production worldwide, is there not just to see that the production conforms to SAG Rules, but also to the Child Labor Laws of the State of California, which as I've stated previously, are among the most strident in the country, moreso than North Carolina's.

That teacher is essentially a welfare worker for the rights of the child on set.

According to California employment law, the studio teacher “must be aware of such factors as working conditions, physical surroundings, signs of the child’s mental and physical fatigue, and demands placed upon the child.” Further, a studio teacher “may refuse to allow a child to continue working on a set or location if the teacher deems that conditions present a danger to the health, safety, and morals of the minors.”

So regardless of the director's union affiliation or ignorance of the law, the California Certified Studio Teacher was on set at all times to see that those laws weren't violated. If he or she is later found to have allowed that child's safety or morals to have been endangered or breached, they are subject to investigation and immediate dismissal from their duties. It is my experience that tutors more often than not err on the side of the child rather than on the side of production and are sticklers about the rules and the law being followd to the letter.

And if you don't want me to post anymore, just say so. No need to bring DOOK into the conversation!

[4Corners]

If you want a good look at exactly what those laws are, look here:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/CLLPamphlet2000.pdf#search=%22california%20child%20labor%20laws%22

The Entertainment Industry section begins on page 35.

And note the following:

"California employers who employ resident minors outside of California under contractual arrangements made within California, must comply with all California child labor laws and regulations. [8 CCR 11756]"

The contractual arrangement here is a SAG contract, of which Hound Dog was a signatory.

[Tre Benson]

"California employers who employ resident minors outside of California under contractual arrangements made within California, must comply with all California child labor laws and regulations. [8 CCR 11756]"

I don't believe California law has any authority in North Carolina or any other State. Same with SAG rules and some teacher charged with enforcing those rules.

I did read http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/11755.html and no where in there was there any mention of a requirement to have knowledge of the law. And no where in the PDF you gave me is there anything addressing that issue. And no where in either was there any mention of any training required to understand legal boundaries much less an understanding of a community's sense of morality. Also I did not find a requirement to have a degree in social work or child psychology. Just a teacher's certificate, not even a requirement to have experience.

How many of these California Certified Studio Teachers were there working Hound Dog?

What was the great actor John Wayne's nickname?

Briefly, a “California Studio Teacher” functions as both a teacher and a child welfare worker for child performers on entertainment industry sets. A studio teacher must hold dual teaching certification in California: a California Multiple Subject credential (elementary school) and a Single Subject credential (high school). In addition, the studio teacher must hold a Studio Teacher Credential issued by the California Department of Labor. This credential denotes a thorough knowledge of California child labor laws, including the rules governing the number of hours child actors can be on-set and how that time can be spent.

http://www.onlocationeducation.com/teacher_req.asp

A written examination will be required of the studio teacher by the Labor Commissioner at the time of certification or renewal. Such examination shall be designed to ascertain the studio teacher’s knowledge of the labor laws and regulations of the State of California as they apply to the employment of minors in the entertainment industry. In addition, each studio teacher applicant will be required to successfully complete a twelve-hour course of instruction designed by the Labor Commissioner to instruct the applicant in the duties and responsibilities of the studio teacher. Every studio teacher, as a condition of renewal of certification by the Labor Commissioner, must complete three hours of instruction in a class designed by the Labor Commissioner to ensure that the studio teacher remains abreast of any changes in the laws and regulations and duties and responsibilities of the studio teacher.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/11755.html

[elvis]

And it is as obvious to me that this California teacher has no authority in NC. Also has no training in social work or child development psychology.

If you are claiming that there is a required course that last 12 hours then WTF? That is less hours of training required to get your drivers license.

Twelve hours on how to be a movie teacher which you are assuming includes some instruction about how to be a social worker too.

Wow what a reach. Can you imagine calling the teacher a nurse too? Social worker and nurse require about the same amount of education. A little more than 12 hours. Just because someone can fish a bandaid out of a box and stick it to a kid's knee does not make the teacher a nurse.

I wonder if you honestly think you made a point.

A point of pissing me off.

Sorry got wound up.

[4Corners]

On what other job is there any kind of person at all constantly watching over and making sure the rights of the employees, be they minors or adults, are adhered to? A certified teacher is present every second a minor is working on a film. I can't think of any other job in which what is the case.

What do you think, there's supposed to be a lawyer and a child psychologist on every film set in the country in which a minor is working? Get real.

How much training in law and social work do you guys have? Yet you seem to think you're experts in the law and child welfare.

[Tre Benson]

First of all Elvis and 4 corners this is not going to be a pissing contest. There are other forums you guys can go to continue with that tone. I am the only one allowed to carry the big hose because this is my forum. If you don't like my tone go somewhere else otherwise be kind and respectful and I will do the same.

Elvis give me a minute or two of sleep then let me handle the flames but on this one you almost got it right and beat me to the punch dang-nabit.

************************************************************

"Every studio teacher, as a condition of renewal of certification by the Labor Commissioner, must complete three hours of instruction in a class designed by the Labor Commissioner to ensure that the studio teacher remains abreast of any changes in the laws and regulations and duties and responsibilities of the studio teacher."

************************************************************

The renewal takes place every three years. A lot changes in three years.

Also the question of how many children were cast for this movie. A teacher/tutor is allowed to handle up to 10 children at once. I am curious if all 10 were on set at once and if not who was watching whom.

Once again I echo that the teacher/tutor is not required to have any experience, is not required to have knowledge of the laws of North Carolina concerning child welfare, is not even a certified teacher in North Carolina (possible but not required when teaching out of California) and lastly is not an employee of the student cast member, the teacher/tutor is employed by the production company.

I only mention these things because so much importance has been brought to the comment "there was a child welfare worker on set" as if the "welfare worker" was from DSS or CPS. Why not say a tutor was on set? That would be more accurate.

And no when someone pushes a teaching certificate in my face claiming that that will protect a child from the exploitive practices of a production company I have to expose the spin of that claim. Just look, as an example, the number of abusive daycare workers, the number of teachers of both sexes abusing children. John Mark Karr former teacher is in the news today. His name sound familiar?

I'm sorry I know you mean well, I am not just addressing you there are many others that have positioned themselves on your side of the fence. No one wants to think a law was broken and certainly no one wants to see Dakota hurt in anyway. Some feel this exposure is hurting her and that she needs defending. Good. I hope you continue to have such a protective heart.

************************************************************

On what other job is there any kind of person at all constantly watching over and making sure the rights of the employees, be they minors or adults, are adhered to? A certified teacher is present every second a minor is working on a film. I can't think of any other job in which what is the case.

************************************************************

How about OSHA or Board of Medical Examiners, the Bar Association, Health Department, law enforcement, Real Estate Commission, FAA, FTC, SEC, FDA, and on and on down to your Riverwatch, Sierra Clubs, and other grassroots organizations.

I LOVE THIS SMARTASS QUESTION

************************************************************

How much training in law and social work do you guys have? Yet you seem to think you're experts in the law and child welfare.

************************************************************

Since you asked. Marc has 28 years experience in law enforcement. He is a graduate of the FBI National Academy, he has arrested over 1,700 people in his career. Testified in over 300 court cases. Voted Law Enforcement Officer of the Year and somehow persuaded over 20,000 people (out of 43,000 total votes cast) to vote for him in the 2002 elections for Sheriff.

Me? I majored in Psychology at Duke, did post grad work in anthropology, specializing in adolescent development at Carolina. Spent my senior year in clinical study. Worked with cases of domestic violence, incest, rape and ritualistic child sex abuse. I have been volunteering for various causes concerning children for over 20 years. I am also a father.

You know I was thinking, I would like to put you into contact with Linnea Smith, Coach Dean Smith's wife. http://www.talkintrash.com I know she would have some wise words to pass along to you regarding this issue. Be sure to tell her Tre asked you to contact her.

[Tre Benson]

I told you what would happen if you couldn't play nice.

I have talked with several people that were on set and others that were on the call sheet that were near set. I have read the script, I have a copy of the script if you would like to read it.

I suggest you speak with an attorney and go over the laws regarding the sexual exploitation of a minor and the law concerning child pornography.

Your posts have been deleted because of your tone. Feel free to try again but don't be such a dick next time.

[4Corners]

Tone is a matter ot perception and perspective.

From what I gather, you have no issue with publically calling into question and judging the morals and ethics of others. To censure the words of those who might call your tactics and motivations into question reeks of hypocrisy of the highest order.

Sure this forum is yours to govern as you see fit, but if all you want to do is push an agenda and delete the questions and thoughts of those who offer a different point of view, you're never going to approach anything like the truth.

[4Corners]

And by the way, I'm not the one who typified another's remarks as "smartass" or called them a "dick", so before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.

Go ahead and delete these posts too.

The truth hurts.

[Robert]

I posted the stuff about Paul Petersen to point out that this guy is not all that he seems to be. He claimed Dakato was NUDE and even you can agree that was a lie. He claims to be an author, of what? A series of books promoting sex, violence, and drugs. What does Marc think about someone that promotes the use of drugs?

I don't appreciate you calling me a "DICK" for pointing out these things.

It doesn't surprise me. You only want to see what you believe to be the truth.

[Tre Benson]

Paul Peterson is not Tre Benson. If you wish to attack him please do so somewhere else. I find the man honorable and is dedicated to searching out the truth in this.

I said Dakota was nude. I did so because that is what I heard to be the truth. I did not mention this publiclly until I read the same thing in the New York Daily News. To my pea brain that was a confirmation so I ran with it. However I recanted partially when a friend of mine claimed otherwise to some reporters. I still maintain that she appeared to be nude. One of my friends saw her from a distance on set and swears she was nude. I have heard also that she was wearing pasties over her nipples and underpants in several scenes.

My brother Marc was interviewed on TV and claimed Dakota was "not dressed" which is not the same as saying that Dakota was nude.

And you are a Dick for continuing to argue with me.

-------------------
And lastly

"From what I gather, you have no issue with publically calling into question and judging the morals and ethics of others."

-------------------

4 corners you are so right. Don't like it get your own microphone. In fact find a microphone for the producers of the movie, or better yet Dakota's mom. Don't fight their battle for them, they are adults. It's not like you are defending the sexual expolitation of a child. Are you?

[4Corners]

I told you I'm not defending Hound Dog at all, but rather attempts to misrepresent and smear a crewbase of hard working filmmakers, the State incentive program, state legislators, location owners, studio teachers and so on and so forth in the process of attacking Hound Dog.

It may turn out that what occurred on Hound Dog was illegal, or "stretched" the bounds of what's either legal or morally acceptable.

It may turn out that every thing done was completely above board and legal and according to the strictest of guidelines.

Honestly I've heard from people who witnessed the situation first hand that nothing inappropriate occurred. These are people I know who have been working in the film biz a long time, and whose words I trust. I am trying to get at least one of them to call into your show on Saturday. What time is the interview with Mr. Petersen and will he and you be willing to take calls from people like that, if they're willing to call?

Don't get me wrong. I don't defend folks who have broken the law. I am certainly not an advocate of child pornography, and I think you know that and realize that your attempt to imply that is detestable and bordering on slanderous.

But I also try not to jump to conclusions or prejudge in the absence of all the facts. And I don't think having a copy of the script necessarily informs one of exactly what occurred on the set.

If this forum isn't for the open discussion of opposing points of view, why have a comment section at all?